happygilmore 11:55 Wed Jan 31
Six Nations
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Starting soon
The winners?
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
Northern Sold
10:14 Thu Mar 22
Re: Six Nations
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To be fair don't matter how tired you are does not matter that you cannot pass a ball.... our ball in hand skills was fucking shocking
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Irish Hammer
10:11 Thu Mar 22
Re: Six Nations
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https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/ewan-mackenna-six-nations-should-be-celebrated-for-what-it-is-and-no-more-36734008.html
Article in Irish Paper today, if you read it the difference in the workload of the players under the Irish centrally contracted method vs the English way are startling.
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overbyyer
11:18 Tue Mar 20
Re: Six Nations
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Eddie Jones is having a shake up of his coaching staff.
Getting Linda Lovelace in to help with persistent choking................
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normannomates
3:19 Tue Mar 20
Re: Six Nations
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Irish hammer 1.42
Very true.
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East Auckland Hammer
3:08 Tue Mar 20
Re: Six Nations
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You're welcome IH.
How long has Ireland had the central contracts?
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Irish Hammer
1:42 Tue Mar 20
Re: Six Nations
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The Irish central contract model is the key to it all
Take Sexton, imo best out half in NH (obviously up for argument but was first choice outhalf the last two lions tours)
To date - over an 8 year period - he has only played a total of 144 Games for Leinster, his club side - one of the most successful sides in Europe.
Whereas for Ireland, from 2009-date, he has played 72 times for his country.
Sean O'Brien is the same, in ten years at Leinster he has only played 109 Games, ie. just over ten a year. Whereas in that period its 51 games for Ireland. Again a Lions first choice.
Basically speaking, barring the big European Games and the derby games vs Munster & Ulster, none of the big Leinster players play in games except to keep them ticking over and to get them ready for the National side.
Hence the better fitness levels, and lack of burn out is much more favourable than the English lads who get flogged to death in the more physical Premiership, same as the French lads in their league.
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East Auckland Hammer
1:04 Tue Mar 20
Re: Six Nations
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Exactly ,
And I think vs Scotland they also conceded a penalty and a try in the first 10-15 mins as well if memory serves?
That's not fatigue, that's just poor play.
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,
12:43 Tue Mar 20
Re: Six Nations
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EAH, on Saturday the pattern for the game was set at the beginning when Farrel went through on an Irishman that he could and should have avoided. The resulting penalty kick and try meant we were immediately on the back foot and 7-0 down.
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East Auckland Hammer
12:40 Tue Mar 20
Re: Six Nations
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The theory about high levels of fitness is sound, and when applied properly works well....look no further than the ABs for evidence of that.
But, fatigue being the cause of giving away penalties, missing tackles, conceding tries, and making bad decisions doesn't really hold much water in the first 10-15 mins of a game does it?
The All Blacks, who Jones is desperately trying to imitate, are the masters of the 80 minute game. I don't know the exact stat, but I think they have outscored their opponents in the last 20 minutes in 80 or 85% of their matches in the last 5 years, and they haven't achieved that by destroying their players.
Ireland have central contracts, mirroring the NZRFU approach, and that gives them a level of control over their players that England don't have, because, as usual, the tail (Premiership) wags the dog (England RFU).
So, rather than trying to copy the end result of the ABs, Jones would be better off trying to copy the process that achieves that.
Of course what will most likely happen though, is performances will continue to drop off and he'll leave after a failure at the RWC.
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Sven Roeder
11:31 Mon Mar 19
Re: Six Nations
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Was that article written by some red corduroy trousered rugby cunt?
Typical arrogance. Girly game? Do fuck off
I suspect Jones knows what he is doing and YES its all about the World Cup
Cant imagine he cares that much about the Six Nations having won a couple of the Second Division titles previously
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zebthecat
11:27 Mon Mar 19
Re: Six Nations
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happygilmore 11:08 Mon Mar 19
Dead right.
When I played club rugby (albeit it at not very high level) we had a fitness coach who would kill us in pre=season. Endless circuits and sprints - last one to throw up sort of thing but once the season started the fitness was a given and we mainly did drills and skills plus full practice matches once a week.
My club specialised in spoiling, getting the edge at breakdown, outlasting the oppo and letting the backs go in the second half, We weren't actually very good but didn't lose many,
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happygilmore
11:08 Mon Mar 19
Re: Six Nations
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I think fatigue was a big factor for England. And I read an article BEFORE the Ireland game, how Jones trying routine has them knackered on match days. Some of it C&P if anyone interested.
"Any coach who tries to over-train or push his team too far in the lead-up or during a championship should be flogged and flogged as hard as they are flogging their players. It is the sign of a weak coach that you overdo it and demand a regime that is patently excessive. Eddie Jones has gone on record that he wants England to be 20 per cent fitter for the World Cup than they are now … forgive me, but I thought the World Cup was 18 months away - concentrate on the now maybe.
Jones took his team to Portugal on a 10-day horror physical training and conditioning session where he horse-whipped them to their knees. All so that England would be the fittest team at the World Cup … in 18 months' time!
England at their Pennyhill Park camp in Bagshot, Surrey have been engaged in the sort of training sessions that would leave the Marquis de Sade beaming. Hill sprints with weighted jackets all day long - bring on the green berets.
George Ford, who played but was an innocent bystander last Saturday in Paris, was quoted thus: "The training sessions are more challenging than games." Ford may not feature at all this Saturday.
The term 'tactical periodisation' which Jones picked up from a meeting with Pep Guardiola may be of value in the girly game but trying to make training so intense that it is easier to operate and think clearly especially in the last quarter is a great idea if all you are doing is kicking a ball around. Tiki-taka doesn't happen in Rugby Union.
England's poor form thus far is all down to a fatigue. All the penalties they have been conceding are because they are tired. The ill-discipline is down to fatigue. The defeat at the breakdown is because they are knackered, the listless attempt to attack down to the fact that there is nothing in the tank.
I've seen articles blaming it on lack of leadership, the inaccuracy of their half-backs and their inability to cope with Pro14 and Top 14 styles at the breakdown. All b***** - they are knackered. I hope Jones punished them again this week at Pennyhill - more hill sprints, try some 'Up & Downs', Eddie."
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,
10:39 Mon Mar 19
Re: Six Nations
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Is Jones a two season wonder? He turns up England win two consecutive six nations and then we actually have a season as bad as any we've had in years.
What I don't understand is how we beat Wales.
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East Auckland Hammer
10:25 Mon Mar 19
Re: Six Nations
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Funny how fatigue only becomes an issue when England have a poor run of results.
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Northern Sold
6:27 Mon Mar 19
Re: Six Nations
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Mart.... to be fair the comparison with Farrell is not probably the best as he was probably our best player... how about Itoje who looks to have hit that 3rd season slump... and that pile of old dog George Kruis... who was a pile of old dog...
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Council Scum
6:19 Mon Mar 19
Re: Six Nations
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Northern Sold 11:58 Mon Mar 19
Re: Six Nations
Central contracts mean they get rested and don't play half the rugby we do.
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Mart O
5:08 Mon Mar 19
Re: Six Nations
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Northern Sold 11:58 Mon Mar 19
Hmmm...apparently Owen Farrell has played 1,084 minutes for Saracens this season, whereas Johnny Sexton has had 434 at Leinster. Spread that across the board, bearing in mind about five of Ireland's 6 nations side played a major part in the Lions tour as opposed to about double the number of English, and there's bound to be some impact.
The Irish have by far the best set up in terms of central contracts and how the players are managed. The Pro 14 is better than people think but there are deffo more soft games than in the Premiership.
I still think Jones is partly at fault but I'm not sure that fatigue can just be discounted as a factor.
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White Pony
1:00 Mon Mar 19
Re: Six Nations
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Strange how England faded so much as the comp went on. They have been flattering to deceive for a while now I think. Will be interesting to see where they go from here.
It was great to see Ireland smash it.
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Roby
12:57 Mon Mar 19
Re: Six Nations
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Won £30 in the office sweepstake on Ireland! Couldn’t really give a monkeys about rugby normally though.
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Northern Sold
11:58 Mon Mar 19
Re: Six Nations
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Nope... massively disappointing campaign... what makes me laugh is I hear that our players are knackered from last years Lions tour.... funny as I thought there was Micks, Taff's and Jocks on that tour as well??
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happygilmore
9:52 Mon Mar 19
Re: Six Nations
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Only looked at final table and see England finish fifth. No one would have predicted that.
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